NATO celebrates its 70th anniversary this week with a meeting of foreign ministers in Washington, DC, to mark the signing of the Washington Treaty, the document that lays out the legal framework of the military alliance.

NATO Secretary Basic Jens Stoltenberg also met with President Donald Trump on Tuesday. Trump has been a frequent critic of the alliance, frequently calling out member nations for not meeting their economic commitment to NATO — a contribution of two % of gross domestic solution to defense spending.

Estonia, a Baltic nation in northern Europe, has met or exceeded its economic commitment considering that 2015. Estonia — from time to time referred to as E-stonia for its reputation as a tech-savvy hub — is also household to the NATO Cooperative Cyber Defence Centre of Excellence. As a smaller state formerly annexed by the Soviet Union and now on the border with Russia, Estonia’s geography has been of some concern. But Jonatan Vseviov, Estonia’s ambassador to the United States, says NATO’s commitment to its members is robust. Vseviov spoke with The World’s Marco Werman about collective defense and the future of the NATO alliance.

Marco Werman: Very first of all, what is NATO’s existing commitment to your nation?

Jonatan Vseviov: Properly, the NATO commitment, of course, is ironclad. Write-up five — collective defense — is the backbone of our safety, also the backbone of European and trans-Atlantic safety. We’re convinced that NATO is as robust as it has ever been — basically, having stronger every single day. The choices we’ve created in the previous couple of years have place us back on the path of safeguarding European and trans-Atlantic safety. We’re really satisfied with the way points have created in the alliance, and we’re searching forward to the vital meetings this week, as nicely as later on this year when the heads of state come with each other and hope to see extra superior choices on collective defense.

What selection had been you just referring to?

It is a quantity of choices on strengthening collective defense, on generating positive that we commit sufficient on defense, but also that we use what we commit wisely. When it comes to military infrastructure or military capabilities preparing and workout routines, we’ve completed a lot and we just need to have to maintain on going mainly because the challenges that we face have not gone away and will not go away anytime quickly.

Ambassador, you mentioned NATO’s commitment to Estonia is ironclad. You think that, regardless of US President Donald Trump’s critiques of the alliance?

Oh completely, completely. We think that, and we also want to assure everyone that our commitment to NATO and Write-up five is ironclad. NATO’s posture is not only composed of words. And even although from time to time words might be applied deliberately, what NATO is is a lot extra than just rhetoric. NATO is larger than just any administration, any president, any foreign minister. NATO has been about for 70 years. It is had ups and downs. It is faced down the Soviet challenge and NATO will absolutely face down future challenges, as nicely. Not mainly because of partisan politics, but mainly because of the basic values and interests that bring European and North American democracies with each other. So, I am confident that every little thing that brought us with each other 70 years ago is nevertheless valid — even extra so these days than it was possibly 10, 20, 30 years ago.

As far as Estonia goes, would you say that Estonia’s largest safety threat is your neighbor, Russia?

One particular of the points we can not transform is geography, and the reality of the matter is that we are situated on the boundary amongst NATO and Russia. And the reality of life, however, also is that Russia is assertive when it comes to its foreign policy. So, we naturally take Russia really seriously. We are not anti-Russian. NATO is not anti-Russian. But NATO is completely committed to safeguarding and securing every single square foot of its territory. That contains Estonia’s territory, which just occurs to be subsequent to Russia. Russia has a important influence on our safety, yes.

We saw Russia go into Crimea and annex it — Crimea becoming, of course, the Ukrainian territory. That occurred in 2014. What would occur if Vladimir Putin attempted to claw element of Estonia into Russia? Can you visualize a situation exactly where that could occur?

I can assure you that we, as nicely as our American mates and allies, as nicely as all of NATO, take every single prospective situation really seriously, and that more than the previous couple of years, and as we speak these days, we play via these scenarios at our workout routines, tabletop workout routines and our discussions with government officials. So, we prepare for every single situation which includes the most unlikely and the most really serious ones. So, I am confident that absolutely nothing like this will ever occur in Estonia for as lengthy as we maintain on performing what we’ve been performing in the previous couple of years.

Write-up five, the collective defense clause, says that an attack on 1 would be responded to by all members of NATO. It is only been invoked when following 9/11. If it had been applied once again, say at the request of Estonia in response to Russian aggression, do you think the whole alliance, crucially the United States, would come to Estonia as assistance?

Yes, we do. But extra importantly, we need to have to convince other individuals of this. Just us believing in Write-up five is not sufficient, however.

What other individuals are you particularly referring to?

Every single other non-NATO nation in the planet. Everyone who could entertain concepts of attacking a NATO ally. They need to have to be convinced that, when attacking NATO, NATO would respond. We’ve completed a superior job up till now. NATO has been attacked when as you mentioned, and Write-up five was invoked when, that was suitable following 9/11. And if you try to remember, then NATO went to war. It went to war with its American allies, deployed in thousands to Afghanistan. I am positive NATO would do that once again if important. Hopefully, it will never ever be important.

There is usually area for improvement. Exactly where has NATO fallen down?

Even though there are a quantity of locations exactly where we need to have to continue our function, 1 of them, naturally created popular by President Trump, is defense spending. Write-up five of the Washington Treaty is the collective defense clause. That is the clause that stipulates that an attack on 1 is an attack on all. Write-up three of the Washington Treaty, which is for some purpose significantly less popular, talks about every single ally is accountable for their personal defense. Defense spending is crucially vital and there is area for improvement there.

Estonia, it really is intriguing, is 1 of the couple of NATO members that is not in arrears on defense spending for the alliance. Do you push your other member states to step it up?

Oh, yes, we do. We’ve completed so considering that just before the topic became as popular as it has develop into now.

Two % of GDP is regarded as to be the minimum for us to be capable to sustain adequate military capabilities. Estonia suitable now is above two % of GDP. Other allies are either at or moving towards the two % target.

Ambassador Vseviov, could Estonia survive with out NATO?

Properly, I guess we could ask the similar query about every single ally. The reality that we have all voluntarily joined this alliance suggests that we all assume that we are greater off with NATO. I definitely think this to be the case. Naturally, for Estonia, but also for the United States and every single other ally. This is the most important organization, the only military alliance that brings Western democracies with each other.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

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